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Several measurings on boats at the same time?

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Several measurings on boats at the same time?

Postby Guest » Thu May 18, 2006 1:01 pm

Hy.
I`m not a elektronik-spesialist and are searching for god advise.
No dealer have ideas, maybe you have?
(sorry for my bad english while writing, but i try :roll:)

I do have that problem:

We work with elektrical installations (allmost 12V or 24V) on boats.
Sometimes do we have the problem to find failures, which stands up only after a while (between some seconds and to/tree hours) or only sometimes.
It happens often that problems comes up by reasons of temperatur (contakts, corrosion and others), or overloading, to low loading, or also problems with alternators.

The problem is to locate when and where the problem is coming from, without much waste of time by waiting or searching on wrong places.
That happens often by searching in bigger systems.

Eksampel:
Sometimes will it happens that we are ready be measuring of the alternator, go further to other parts of installations, but while we do so is coming a feilure on f.eksampel alternator or splittdiodes.
With that do we get a wrong measuring in the hole system, but are searching on a wrong place.

So have i got the idea to take a USB-scope (or like), measuring on several points at the same time, view all "channels" under each other on a laptop like a "graph" (right word?) and find the problems easyer.
Is that possible?

What i need now to have in one view:
The alternator: frequens (do i get clear DC?), voltage (to low / to high / jumping?).
Volt DC, 0 to 35 Volts: measuring of at least 4 points at the same time.
Ampere: 0 to 120A (best also reverse) current clamp for at least 1 (bedder 3) channels.
Alarmfunktion: for all parameters, maybe that saving of measurings is starting there.
Afterwards do i like to get printed it out for viewing and analysing

What i like to have, too:
a datalogger with own memory (which can stand allone) and takes up 4 to 6 channels 0 to 35V DC over a time of about some hours,
maybe also / or : Ampere and temperatur if it needs, too.

Help?

Hvis best regards
Trollmann
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Postby Trollmann » Thu May 18, 2006 1:30 pm

Don´t know why there stands "guest."
Me who has written that questions are registrated as "Trollmann" since this day.
Sorry if there something was going wrong.
Trollmann
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Postby Sarah » Mon May 22, 2006 3:17 pm

Hi Trollmann

Thank you for your post.

The only stand-alone system that we have is Enviromon. This uses the EL005 logger and up to 10 converters attached to this to measure different parameters. How often do you wish to take readings? The Enviromon system cannot take readings faster than at 1 minute intervals. Is this suitable for your application?

Best Regards
Sarah
 

Postby Trollmann » Mon May 22, 2006 3:29 pm

Hei Sarah.
Thanks.
But, no, i don`t think so.
The problems stands up suddenly and thats i want to find.
But that is not my biggest problem.
A stand-allone must not be.

But do you have a answer about the more-channel-instrument i have ask for?
Thats what i need first... and best now :roll:

Best regards
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Postby ricardo » Tue May 23, 2006 8:47 am

Hi Trollmann,

It sounds like you need one of our automotive diagnostic kits,

http://www.picotech.com/auto/automotive_kit.html

These come with a 4 channel scope, so you will be able to test 4 things simultaneously also you can use the current clamps to test the load on the different circuits and test your alternator.

These scopes have a 50V range so you will be able to use them on the 24V systems too. The kits come with all sorts of test leads and probes that I'm sure you will find very usefull.

http://www.picotech.com/auto/diagnostic-kits.html

With the software you will be able to record all 4 signals on the screen in a Voltage or Amps against Time graph for up to 30 min, which you can then save to a file and print.

With regards to stand alone data loggers, as Sarah has already mentioned, the only thing we have is the EnviroMon system. Unfortunately the fastest that this system can sample at is 1 sample per minute.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Ric
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Postby Trollmann » Tue May 23, 2006 9:12 am

Hei Ric.
Thanks a lott.

I have allready found that system on youre websides.
Like you say, it themes god and has actually that what i´m looking for,
but it has to less channels.

Isn`t it possibel to kombinate/splitt the system for measuring on 6 to 8 channels, too?

The channels which i need "extra" must only take Voltage, so that i can see where and when the system is missing loading.

Had been nice to get a answer soon.

Best regards
T.
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Postby ricardo » Tue May 23, 2006 9:37 am

Hi Trollmann,

No unfortunately it is not possible to combine multiple units to obtain more channels, the software is not capable of doing this.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Best regards,

Ric
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Postby Trollmann » Tue May 23, 2006 9:47 am

Thank you, that has been fast.

But is it possibel to use to skopes at the same time and view that on one display (Windows) ?
Or to use another 8-channelscope with the same software ?

Best regards
T.
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Postby ricardo » Tue May 23, 2006 10:33 am

Hi Trollmann,

No, unfortunately with PicoScope (oscilloscope software) you can only use one unit at a time. Also you can only use Pico oscilloscopes with PicoScope.

If you must have more than 4 channels then you have 2 options, both will have limitations. Option 1 is to use one of our data loggers (ADC11), option 2 is to use multiple scopes with PicoLog (data logging software).

If you want to use an ADC-11 for your application, you will have some work to do first as the maximum input is only 2.5V. You will need to use suitable resistors to step down your input voltages.

http://www.picotech.com/data-acquisition.html

If you want to use multiple scopes with PicoLog you will have to use the non automotive scopes as PicoLog does not support the automotive ones. For example you could use 2 PS3424 (4 channels) with PicoLog. PicoLog will allow you to log data for several hours but you are limited to a maximum sampling rate of 1 sample per millisecond.

http://www.picotech.com/4-channel-oscilloscope.html

Note that the 3424 does not have the 50V range and you will have to setup custom ranges to use the current clamps if you want the readings in Amps.

Hope this helps,

Ric
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Postby Trollmann » Tue May 23, 2006 10:41 am

Thank you :D
I will think about that and come back later this day for shure.

Thanks a lott.
With best regards
T.
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diagnosis on boats

Postby guest » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:54 pm

I cannot answer the questions regarding the picoscope but I am in the alternator/starter business. It sounds to me like you are having problems with rusty/intermittent connections. To find these problems, the quickest way is to do loaded voltage drop testing. This will reveal the bad connections even before they glitch or fail entirely. Run the rated current through the circuit under test, and use a voltmeter to measure across cables and connectors. If the voltage drop at rated current is excessive across any two points, then you have found a potential problem area. Between the alternator and the battery, for example, there should not be more than 0.2 volts drop total on either the positive or ground side. On the starting circuit, you could expect no higher than 0.5V. Again, measure the voltage drop across a cable or connector while the rated current is flowing.

Nathan
ASI Rebuilders
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Re: diagnosis on boats

Postby Guest » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:32 pm

guest wrote:I cannot answer the questions regarding the picoscope .....

Nathan
ASI Rebuilders

Hi Nathan and thanks a lot, I know that.
But this hasn`t been my problem.
The problem i have searcht for has been (not any longer because I have buyed the 4-channel-automotiv kit) feilures which has changed in between.

But this is done now.
I must say that the automotive kit is pretty god and inkludes all you need,
and actually more then I have neded.
Even if I think that it is to expensive.

But i t helps, so thanks a lot.

Best regards
T
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