Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

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MAX66
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by MAX66 »

Hello Aaron,

I have a oscilloscope AKIP 4111 which has the same hardware as the Picoscope 5203, but differs in firmware, as it was produced for sale in Russia.
Could you add this oscilloscope model to the list of models supported by the FRA4PicoScope?
I am saving money for Omicron Bode 100. But if AKIP 4111 works with this wonderful program, I think many people in Russia will be very grateful to you!
Thanks in advance,

With Regards,
Armen Mkrtchyan

MAX66
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by MAX66 »

Hello Aaron,
Here is a list of correspondence of AKIP models to Pikoscope models.
AKIP I Pico I Bandwidth I Ch. N I Res. I
AKIP-4106 I PicoScope 2104 I 10 MHz I 1 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4106/1 I PicoScope 2105 I 25 MHz I 1 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4107 I PicoScope 2203 I 5 MHz I 2 I 8Bit I
AKIP-4107/1 I PicoScope 2204 I 10 MHz I 2 I 8Bit I
AKIP-4107/2 I PicoScope 2205 I 25 MHz I 2 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4108 I PicoScope 3204 I 50 MHz I 2 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4108/1 I PicoScope 3205 I 100 MHz I 2 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4108/2 I PicoScope 3206 I 200 MHz I 2 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4109 I PicoScope 3224 I 10MHz I 2 I 12 Bit I
AKIP-4109/1 I PicoScope 3424 I 10 MHz I 4 I 12 Bit I
AKIP-4109/2 I PicoScope 3425 I 5 MHz Diff. in I 4 I 12 Bit I
AKIP-4110 I PicoScope 4224 I 20 MHz I 2 I 12 Bit I
AKIP-4110/1 I PicoScope 4424 I 20 MHz I 4 I 12 Bit I
AKIP-4111 I PicoScope 5203 I 250 MHz I 2 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4111/1 I PicoScope 5204 I 250 MHz I 2 I 8 Bit I
AKIP-4112 I PicoScope 9201 I 12 GHz I 2 I 12 Bit I
AKIP-4112/1 I PicoScope 9211 I 12 GHz I 2 I 16 Bit I
AKIP-4114 I PicoScope 6402 I 350 MHz I 4 I 8 Bit I
АКИП-4114/1 I PicoScope 6403 I 350 MHz I 4 I 8 Bit I

Is it possible to add support for all of them?

With Respect,
Armen

Martyn
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by Martyn »

For information those are all legacy models, that haven't been manufactured for a number of years. Some do not have signal generators, others only have a very simple generator, and two are sampling scopes.
Martyn
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MAX66
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by MAX66 »

Hello Martyn!

I agree with you, these are outdated models, but they are all still perfectly supported in the PicoScope software. If we look at my AKIP 4111, we can see, that it's hardware it is much more powerful than the 2204A so vigorously discussed here.

Regards,
Armen

hexamer
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by hexamer »

lazy_electron wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:33 pm
hexamer wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:39 am
Thank you for reporting your experience. Can you tell me what error code you're getting during initialization?
Sure, this is the error message I see with 5444D scope (serial number obscured **** by me)

Code: Select all

ps5000aSetChannel( 16384, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0 );Fatal error: Failed to disable channel: 290
Status: 5444DMSO S/N: IO716/**** successfully initialized.
Looking a little closer at this now. I think the issue reported by both whichislovely and lazy_electron may be a real issue (not just under-powered USB ports).

In the error reported: ps5000aSetChannel( 16384, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0 );Fatal error: Failed to disable channel: 290

The code is trying to disable channel C (2), which should be valid since power is not applied. Since I don’t see this happening on my PS5444A, it makes me wonder if something is different on a PS5000D scope (both reporters).

Can anyone confirm whether they see this issue on a PS5000D scope? Simply try to connect to your PS5000D series scope with no auxilliary power applied.

mnni
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by mnni »

Hi Aaron

I got both an 5000D and 5000A version

And yes there is a issue with the detection of auxiliary Power for the 5000D but i am not sure if it also goes for the A/B versions as i just updated to newest SDK before i stepped on this issue at home, the A version is at work where i used it in a fuel cell stack impedance measurement application where i measure the impedance on multiple cell groups in the stack at the same time with very good results.

anyway i had a brief look in the code when i stepped on to the issue and i think maybe Picoscope have added new functions to detect power status of the scope, but i didn't go more into it than this as i have been busy with other stuff.

bengarbuttchiaro
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by bengarbuttchiaro »

Hi,
can you confirm whether this issue makes the FRA unusable with the 5000D series? or that it just requires the external power connected or otherwise.

If there's a workaround I may be looking to buy one of these ASAP, otherwise I'll have to look elsewhere..
Thanks

Martyn
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by Martyn »

The Set Channel command will return the following error code if the channel is either Chan C or Chan D if the power supply is not connected, even if you are just disabling it

Code: Select all

#define PICO_CHANNEL_DISABLED_DUE_TO_USB_POWERED    0x00000122UL
Martyn
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vichiker
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by vichiker »

Does this program support the 6403D? I downloaded the FRA4PicoScope_0.7.3b.msi file but I see nothing happens. I do not see where can execute the downloaded file or see any icon where to open the FRA4 window. Thank you so much for your kind help. I am not a software geek. It is very difficult to me to go through this process.

hexamer
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by hexamer »

vichiker wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 7:34 pm
Does this program support the 6403D? I downloaded the FRA4PicoScope_0.7.3b.msi file but I see nothing happens. I do not see where can execute the downloaded file or see any icon where to open the FRA4 window. Thank you so much for your kind help. I am not a software geek. It is very difficult to me to go through this process.
Hello and sorry for the delayed response. Seems I'm not getting notifications on this thread.

The code has been setup to handle a PS6403D ever since I first made a release in 2014, but I don't see anyone reporting success with that scope, and I don't have anything in that family to test with. So, it's entirely possible there's a bug preventing its use. Here are a few questions to help diagnose:
  1. Does the PicoScope application successfully open the scope?
  2. Did you install the latest 32 bit SDK?
  3. There are a couple bugs I've fixed since 0.7.3b which haven't made it into a released version yet:
    - If you have neither the SDK or PicoScope application installed Fra4PicoScope will silently crash on open
    - If the app does not find a scope, it will ask you if you want to use a demo scope. The dialog box for that question sometimes goes to the background and it makes it look like the app crashed. Try a alt-tab or minimize all windows to see if you can find it.
  4. Can you post the Fra4PicoScope log text for me to see what you mean by "nothing happens"?
Thank you,

Aaron.

hexamer
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by hexamer »

bengarbuttchiaro wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:36 pm
Hi,
can you confirm whether this issue makes the FRA unusable with the 5000D series? or that it just requires the external power connected or otherwise.

If there's a workaround I may be looking to buy one of these ASAP, otherwise I'll have to look elsewhere..
Thanks
It should only require that DC power is applied. I am investigating a fix for this issue, so the next release should remove such restriction.

Donny001
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by Donny001 »

Hi Mr. hexamer,
I met a problem when using Picoscope 5444D-034 with FRA version 0.7.3b.
The program can detect the scope but can not initiate the scope and it gives an error message as below picture . Could you please help to check what the issue maybe?
I need to use this scope to test my DC-DC converter loop gain.
Thank you and hope to get your response soon.
Attachments
Error Message.jpg
PICOSCOPE 5444D-034.jpg

hexamer
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by hexamer »

Donny001 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:47 am
Hi Mr. hexamer,
I met a problem when using Picoscope 5444D-034 with FRA version 0.7.3b.
The program can detect the scope but can not initiate the scope and it gives an error message as below picture . Could you please help to check what the issue maybe?
I need to use this scope to test my DC-DC converter loop gain.
Thank you and hope to get your response soon.
Hi Donny,

I hope I can help you, but I can't predict how far we'll get with this. From what I can tell, the PS5444D-034 model is the PicoScope hardware sold by Vector for their "Option .Scope" product. I can't tell for sure, but I would guess that it does not identify the same as a PS5444D, which is why it can't be opened.

I don't know what other differences there may be in its firmware / operation vs a standard PS5444D, so I could not guarantee that it would even work for FRA. If you want to try at your own risk I could make a special version of the FRA application to try for yourself. However, if we run into issues, I can't promise I have the time to investigate.

Thank you,

Aaron.

Nicosten
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by Nicosten »

Hello,

I have a customer from a large aero company who tested the FRA in comparison with desktop instruments.
The advantage of the Pico based FRA is the portable solution vs desktop.
Now he sees two improvements to bring its performance at the same level:
1- we would like to see the signal in real time during the plot construction - running PicoScope concurrently or having a signal display window helps the operator to rapidly 'see' a device saturation in real-time.
2- it would help to have graphical tools to inspect the curves , like zooming or point by point scrolling.

hexamer
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Re: Frequency Response Analyzer with Bode Plots

Post by hexamer »

Nicosten,

Those are both excellent suggestions. The second one is already implemented, but I haven't made a release yet. I'll post some screenshots so you can see what is available. On the first one, I've previously envisioned having a separate window to display the (already existing) diagnostic time domain plots as the FRA is progressing. Because the data capture needs to be in block mode it would only update the plots once the whole waveform for a frequency point is captured. However it seems that would solve the problem posed.

Thank you,

Aaron.

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