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pico scope

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pico scope

Postby autojoe » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:42 pm

I was thinking of buying either a pico scope or an otc 3850 4 channel scope.The otc scope has memory inserts with all kind of info and also has ignition raster,parade,superimposed.Does the pico have that?What is the better scope?
autojoe
 

comparing

Postby Autonerdz » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Hi Joe,

Pico has a built in technical library, but it is not vehicle specific with test points and wiring diagrams. Pico does not do raster or superimposed views. However, it will show you more detail and resolution on any waveform than anything you have ever seen.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions on automotive application. The following are general guidelines when choosing a scope:

I do often get asked about what scope to choose. I don't
have an answer. You see, all scopes have their own set of
limitations. Some have more limitations than others :-p The
scope is only half the picture though. The tech is the
other half. You have to match the tech with the scope. The
most capable scope, not well matched to the user, is less
useful than a somewhat less capable unit that the tech
feels comfortable with. Almost any scope is better than
none.

That being said, sample rate performance is very important.
All the cool features don't mean much if the unit can't
perform. So, I tell techs to first narrow the field by
evaluating the DSO sample rate performance of the units
considered. Then choose based on features from that group.
I have a web based DSO Sample Rate Calculator available to
perform this comparison based on the specs and the math,
not the manufacturer's hype. It enables you to objectively
compare DSO raw performance.

http://www.autonerdz.com/java/SampleRateCalculator.html


That calculator allows you to compare the sample rate
performance of digital scopes. All you need is two specs.
The max ADC speed and the sample buffer size. This empowers
you to determine the raw performance of DSOs you may be
considering so you can narrow the field of choices and then
focus on features on the short list. The features don't
mean much if a scope can't perform when it comes to sample
rate. You can ignore the manufacturer's hype, and make an
objective comparison using the math. This can help avoid
getting something that can't perform.

If the manufacturer can't tell you these specs for max ADC speed and buffer size (or record length), there are really only two possible reasons. Either they don't know, or are too ashamed to tell you. Neither is good...move on.

The Pico 3000 series automotive scopes have a 20MHz ADC and a 512,000 point buffer.

Vertical resolution is another consideration. It is a
separate issue from actual sample rate (horizontal
resolution) and indicates how small a voltage change can be
detected. If you can imagine horizontal grid lines on the
screen, an 8bit scope will have 256 of them. Voltage
changes between the grid lines cannot be detected or
displayed. The voltage must rise or fall to the next grid
line to be detected. A 12bit scope has 4096 grid lines so
smaller voltage changes can be shown. This results in a
waveform with more vertical detail or resolution. A scope
with lower vertical resolution will have more of a stair
step effect on voltage changes when examined closely. A
scope with higher vertical resolution will have a smoother
more finely defined waveform.

Pico automotive scopes are 12 bit.
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America
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pico scope comparison

Postby autojoe » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:27 pm

I called otc and they did not know the specs on scope.Thanks for info.I have a labscope and no ignition scope and liked the raster and superimposed features on the otc scope.The screen resolution was not that good.....as far as other specs...they did not know.Would the pico scope do good on ignition waveforms?Would have to do single cylinders at a time?What about DIS and COP?If I get one...I will buy from you.
autojoe
 

Re: pico scope comparison

Postby Autonerdz » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:11 am

Would the pico scope do good on ignition waveforms?


It does highly detailed secondary waveforms. Here is a live example of PIP SPOUT Secondary and Primary Current from a Ford TFI system:

http://www.autonerdz.com/flash/snaps.html

Would have to do single cylinders at a time?


There is a secondary probe for each channel. You can also use an attachment like the Ferret 953 to parade DIS on a single channel. It works great with Pico. Here is an example where two adapters were used to display all the firing events (waste and power) on one screen:

Image

For COP, you can look at primary, or if it is not available, you can make a pickup out of a bit of foil:

http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1096772088
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America
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pico scope

Postby autojoe » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:04 pm

Thanks for info...I appreciate it!
autojoe
 

record function on pico 3423 besides save- cop furnace tape

Postby mwebb » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:37 pm

i see on the auto nerdz site that the displayed pico 3423 screen has a record function with a tool bar below the pico screen .... how do you set that up ? or is that proprietary additional software ?

also for COP 2ndary connection , the aluminum furnace pipe sealing tape works for some systems and not as well for others . sometimes a pair of 100k resistors in series connected to the tape and ground with the scope lead connected in the center of the resistors controls the wild swings at the 0 part of the 2ndary COP or DIS waveform
mwebb
 

Tool Bar

Postby Autonerdz » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:41 pm

i see on the auto nerdz site that the displayed pico 3423 screen has a record function with a tool bar below the pico screen .... how do you set that up ? or is that proprietary additional software ?


Not sure what you are seeing there. The lower tool bar has trigger functions.

There is a powerful record feature though. It's called 'Save on Trigger'. It writes multiple buffers (screens) to the hard drive. The default number is 100 and the count starts over when you stop and start the scope. It is also possible to do more than 100. The save on trigger function is under Settings/trigger. We have a movie on using this function that is included in our support and training package.
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America
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Postby mwebb » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:28 pm

[img]ignition 2ndary idle dgr9917.PSD

ok , so i did use the "'save on trigger" and i capture hundereds of files like this . .... but i dont see a way to play them back as you guys do on your website , i get one at a time as i open it , and no time bar on the bottom as you have displayed on your website ....
i have searched though the pico help files and i dont find any info on this .... maybe i am not looking in the correct area ?
it doesnt help that i am not a computer /windows expert .

i will look over your website later tonight for the package you describe , thanks . [/img]
mwebb
 

movies

Postby Autonerdz » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:17 am

OK, I think I know what you mean. We have a few movies on the web site that show us examining a single screen capture like this:

http://www.autonerdz.com/flash/cmfi.html

This was done with a screen capture program and then converted to a Flash movie. We have hours of movies like this one, with sound, we put on a training CD for our customers that show how to use it most effectively. It's a virtual training classroom.

You can examine a capture in the same way with PicoScope. We just captured the process and made a movie out of it. This is just one screen...one psd file. Save on trigger captures a series of these files you can step through one at a time. Each one can be zoomed in on and examined as shown in the movie clip. You just expand the capture horizontally and then scroll through it to examine all the details.

PicoScope captures too much information to display well as a frozen image. You really have to be able to zoom in and see the detail. It would take hundreds of screen images to do this on the web site. It's shows it so much better just to make a movie. 8)
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America
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pico scope

Postby mwebb » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:58 am

ok thanks for the tips -
i have it working now , - i am still not getting the resolution i expected , even after setting the value to 100000 . but still a great tool .

i was haveing problems with 60hz in the waveform , that was my fault as i did not ground to the battery but to the injector rail , i knew better .

waiting for a domestic car so i can connect the ace misfire tool , fun fun .
mwebb
 

Training

Postby Autonerdz » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:06 am

Your welcome.

When you are ready for some serious training on that thing, let me know. We'll show you how to make it fly.
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America
User avatar
Autonerdz
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Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Washington State USA

usb ports with apc backup or ?

Postby mwebb » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:00 am

i see the training cd s on your website , was that what you are referring to ? looks very good ....

can i up load a psd file to here ?

my laptop does not like the printer connected to the usb port when i use the pico 3423 , it puts 60hz in the waveforms and makes them unusable . the same with the power connection , i must run with laptop battery only or it is useless . i am using an apc backup sytem ... can that be related ?

i popped the new usb connector for the auto enginuity software , i dont remember if i was using batteries or not at the time , probobly battery , is there something about the usb connectors with the apc backup power supply ????
mwebb
 

Training

Postby Autonerdz » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:15 pm

i see the training cd s on your website , was that what you are referring to ? looks very good ....


No, those are The Nerd Series CDs. That training program is not PicoScope specific but recommended for any automotive scope users. The 30 hour program is based on the seminars we have done from coast to coast here in the US.

Our PicoScope specific training on CD is part of our comprehensive support and training package. This package is included with all PicoScope kits we sell, at no charge, and it doesn't expire. It is also available purchased separately on a yearly subscription basis. Details here:

http://www.autonerdz.com/picokit.htm


can i up load a psd file to here ?


I don't think so. But you can host it on a server and put a link to it here.


my laptop does not like the printer connected to the usb port when i use the pico 3423 , it puts 60hz in the waveforms and makes them unusable . the same with the power connection , i must run with laptop battery only or it is useless . i am using an apc backup sytem ... can that be related ?


Gee, that's odd. I have not seen that problem. I have a printer on my PC with my 3423 hooked up together all the time (with may other USB devices). Try eliminating the backup power supply and see.
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America
User avatar
Autonerdz
Guru
Guru
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Washington State USA


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