Pico Technical Support and Discussion Forum

I buy a picoscope for automotive in years 2000 i diagnostic and i blow it 3 time on secondary ignition system defect( spark jump), and the pico enterprise repair it 3 time for free of charge exept i have trouble for get free of charge

if you buy a vantage Snap-on you have the garanty is good for automotive and long life warranty and the price is probable better with full accessory you need and i have diagnostic of 1000 cars and i never blow snap-on vantage or fluke or Sun-450 on Secondary ignition system bad¸

and you do not need buy a special software for diagnostic automotive is include in the oscilloscope hardware

the cost of picoscope is 1200$ US is really big

Where is my picoscope now is in the drawer and i have scare of use it because the garanty is end if i use it is only for test RC-Cars

and the time to deploy the equipment is too big relative too all others
and where you put the Laptop PC on the hood ? in the top of cars ? PC is a computer and is breakable

any way a recommand pico tech only for play and i im a specialist

Do you know what is ABROLLER AS SEEN as TV is equal AS SEEN on TV
or the Cleaner C.L.R AS SEEN on TV, the betters is the Steam-Matic machine as SEEN ON TV any way a good product i dont seen on tv ?

dont make the same error i made if your are a professionnal buy a professionnal with good market place ex snap-on, otc, Fluke

Hi Guest,

I'm sorry your experience with PicoScope has been less than satisfying. I would be the first to tell you the PicoScope is not for everyone. Just as different instruments have different limitations, so operators to also.

I have techs in my group using PicoScope in a professional automotive setting on five continents. No one has ever said that are not pleased with it. Many have them set up on a diagnostic cart with leads at the ready. Some of them have many other hand held units, but they gather dust. The Pico is so much more powerful.

All automotive diagnostic techs need to have a good lab scope and the skill to use it effectively. The best scope available is of no use though, if the tech cannot get it to do what thay want. What might be a great scope for one, may not be for another. Choosing the right instrument is just as much about the user as it is the scope.

You mention the Vantage. It's not a scope. It's a great tool though, and many are pleased with it. It all depends on what you want it to do, your skill level, and if you are comfortable with it. There is no comparison between the Pico and the Vantage. They are diffenent tools.

In the right hands, and with a little practice and guidance, PicoScope provides a detail and resolution of electrical signals on the automobile that is unprecedented in the industry.

You can blow up any scope by feeding tens of thousands of volts into it from a secondary ignition. These are precision instruments that require a bit of caution during hook up. If you have spark jumping out of the wires, you don't need a scope to diagnose the vehicle.

The supplied secondary leads in the Automotive kit, when properly connected, are designed to shunt any accidental spark to the pickup to ground before it enters the ADC unit. Still, a certain care must be used.

Hello Guest,

I feel it's only fair to give another testimonial by the owner and user of both the Vantage and the PicoScope.

The Vantage has an excellent data-base, multimeter functionality, a fair waveform viewer, self contained, and rugged. The update software is not free though. It is quite expensive as a matter of fact. Pico Technology doesn't charge for software upgrades.

I don't use the Vantage much anymore. For the most part, I use it for the data-base (info) and an Ohmmeter. Having the PicoScope set up on a scope cart is the way to go. Just pull up a previous capture, attach the leads and click on go. Save the capture directly to the hard-drive. You can't do that with the Vantage.

I don't understand why your having problems with secondary. Many of us are quite pleased with it. An AC/Delco instructor stopped by the shop the other day and wanted a demonstration of the PicoScope in action. He had heard about it and was very curious. The vehicle in my bay was a 91 Chev K-10 5.7 "K". This vehicle had an intermittent miss under load. Torqued up for less than 10 seconds flushed out the culprit. We could both clearly see that energy was expelled outside the combustion chamber. #6 plug boot had a leak in it. The instructor was amazed by the extreme detail in the burn events as combustion turbulance was present. He has used many different scopes and had not ever seen anything like it. This is what happens when an experienced scope user finally gets exposed to a precision oscilloscope. I had not either until I started using the PicoScope. It is a comforting feeling knowing that I can put much time on the screen and zoom in on detail. You can thank Mr. Buffer for that.

I rarely find myself wanting to use a scope on a roadtest. Most problems can be found in your bay. A scanner is what I'll grab for a driveability concerns most often. I've only taken the PicoScope for a ride a couple of times. The first time was just for fun. I wanted to watch the O2 response monitor test being run by the PCM. The second time I believe I was watching CKP and primary ignition. If you choose to take the Pico for a ride, there is no need to watch the screen. Just go into a "save on trigger" session and use the space bar to start and stop data acquisition.

I wouldn't recommend a PC-based labscope to anyone that doesn't have the initiative to dedicate time to learn it. For those that do, they will reap from the benefits from it such as I have.

Regards,
Carl

Why don't you use the scope on the road?

This concerns me because the primary reason I've become intersed in a scope is to track down intermittent problems that only occur under driving conditions. Is the Picoscope not suitable for this purpose? Why?

Time to set it up isn't really a concern for me because the problems I'd like to diagnose via the scope aren't really diagnosable by any other means. I've been considering the Fluke 199C/003 and the PicoScope 3423 4 channel kit. I'd also like to use the first look diagnostic sensor with either scope, is it worthwhile at higher engine speeds seen under acceleration loads?

TIA,
Brian

PS to the original poster- Secondary ignition leaks are easily and quickly diagnosed with a visual inspection and perhaps a fine mist of water.

Hi Brian,

PicoScope works GREAT on the road. Using the record feature allows you to focus on the driving and just review your data when you return. The 3423 is even easier to use on the road because there is no power supply to hook up. It's USB powered.

The FirstLook is useful for many things. I have not tried it on a road test, but you might find the voltage scaling to be a challenge as the FLS voltage varies widely. For example, on a snap accel, monitoring intake pulses, I have gotten over 30 volts out of one. So...you would have a wide voltage variation on the intake pulses anyway.

If you are in the US feel free to contact me with any questions you might have.

Thanks for the reply, Tom is it?

Interesting website you have.

Thanks for visiting, Brian. Be sure to drop in to The Autonerdz Community Forums, while you are there. There is a lot of great discussion there too.

Didn't realize my signature block doesn't show if you are not registered and logged in. Yup:

Tom Roberts....Alias 'The Picotologist'

Hi Brian,



I'm not sure what else to say. I simply don't need to roadtest any vehicle that requires a scope to diagnose the problem. I find intermittents in my bay that require it for close examination of the signal or signals. Certainly using the PicoScope is very easy to do on the road if you choose to.

Maybe my position on this relates to being proficient with my OE scanners. They often funnel me into a diagnostic direction for a closer look with the PS3423 that actually rocks BTW! I love it and highly recommend it. The other scopes I have are gathering dust.

I say go for it. Biggest "bang for the buck" you'll ever spend.

Oh, as a side note: That Autonerdz dude is pretty sharp! The energy he puts into this is amazing.

Regards,
Carl

The Pico is great as far as Functionality is concerned However! one of it's limitations is the fact that you have to use a PC period!! We have one here at our facility but we rarely use it on the road. Personally I like to use Hand held Units like the Snap-On Vantage that I have in my Box. You just cant beat the rugged design.

Using a PC is not a limitation..it opens up a whole world of power and flexibility. If your preference is a hand held unit, a small tablet PC or one of the new micro PCs make it so. Ruggedized ones are available too.

Not sure if you are referring to a heritage Vantage or Vantage Pro. The heritage Vantage isn't a scope, the Vantage Pro is a pretty good one but can't keep up with a Pico for many reasons.

A less capable native hand held unit may be slightly more convenient but how convenient is it really if you can't capture the problem easily because of the instruments limitations?

Here at Autonerdz, we provide the resources that make PicoScope experts. Recently, we had a shop purchase a four channel automotive kit because their hand held scopes were not up the the task of capturing an intermittent problem that would only happen under road load conditions that was driving them nuts.

After a day of studying the exclusive training materials we supply with our scope kits and a couple of questions on the phone and email....The next day the tech had the problem on the screen from the first road test. Pico had done what none of the other scopes in the shop could do on repeated attempts.

Rather than post the whole scenario here you can read about it here starting at reply #1

http://www.autonerdz.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB ... 1169571327


Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America

Is the Vantage a scope or just a graphing meter? I was led to believe the Vantage Pro was a full functioning scope.

The V-Pro is a very capable 2 channel scope. The screen resolution is rather poor but the scope resources are good. 8MHz ADC and 256K sample buffer for each channel.

The operational characteristics have issues that interfere with making full use of these resources, but you can learn to overcome some of these.

Of course there is no comparison with Pico's new 4423 scope package, which is over a hundred times more powerful with four channels and costs less with a bunch of accessories included.

The new 4423 has dual 80MHz ADCs and a 32 million point internal buffer. It can collect over 16.5 million samples per channel, per capture, in streaming mode.

Thats like racing a VW bug and an F-16 jet.

But, I would consider the V-Pro to be the most powerful native hand held two channel automotive scope available.

To do better, you would have to go with a PicoScope PC based package. Now there are very low cost netbook PCs for $300 US that can actually run this thing quite well, making the package both low cost and hand held. This makes the entire package with the amp probes and all the other accessories including a PC for about $100 more than the V-Pro list price.

Sure, the V-Pro has things like a PGM but with all that PicoScope power, you'll never need a PGM again.

_________________
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America

wow this thread has turned into a discussion group!! but i too am blowing up the Pico, don't know why but I always use the 20:1 attentuator unless testing a grond signal. I hardy every test secondary patterns as I find primary signal tells me nearly everything anyway. This in theory gives me a safe peak voltage of 400Volts?? Luck I have a 4 channel as I have spare channels to use!

The attenuators are not required for anything under 50 volts with the 3000 series and 100 volts on the 4000 series automotive scopes.

My experience has been that even if the tech forgets them, the scope is not damaged unless this is done repeatedly with high voltage kicks.

Sounds like you are using them when needed, and a 400 volt primary kick is reduced to 20 with the attenuator, so I can't explain why yours failed.

Have you requested an RMA to send it in to the Pico hospital? The Pico team is very helpful and you may be able to get it fixed at little or no cost.

If you are in the USA, call me and I may be able to assist.

_________________
Tom Roberts
(The Picotologist)
http://www.autonerdz.com
skype: autonerdz
THE PicoScope Automotive Authority
In North America

If you do need an RMA to return the unit to us, please email us your contact details and the serial number of the unit: support@picotech.com

Robin